Posts by Las Malvinas son Argentinas

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

Sometimes though I think just as simple theories are plausible as well given his nature.

This is why I read the relevant passages in TRA to see where his mind was and how he interpreted it. Lloyd is a difficult and confrontational person, so I can see Geoffrey taking an instant dislike to him when he showed up with a Bible on his doorstep. It probably was a lot more confrontational than that and him piously counseling him through scripture only made things worse. Not a whole lot of elders would have taken kindly to that kind of intervention.

Still - I don’t see how that alone would be a reason for Geoffrey to take this to Bethel and furthermore, have them actually adjudicate. There had to be something else he was sure he’d nail Lloyd on, and per Lloyd’s own account, he did. And also per Lloyd’s account, this was shortly before Dijana caught him sexting. So it had nothing to do with that particular account he related in his book.

The problem with taking all of this at face value is the fact that Lloyd is a known liar who will always paint a rosier picture than reality to make himself seem to be the innocent party.

I was a JW long enough to know that you don’t get to sin in one congregation, hold onto the info just long enough to transfer to a new congregation, and then confess. Shady action like that is enough for them to conclude you aren’t really repentant and are looking to escape punishment. Chances are they make you go back to the nearby congregation you just fled to face a JC.

Did his father’s influence get him a Wilmslow JC? Maybe. But it’s risky and would put his father right in the crosshairs of Geoffrey, who had already had Bethel rule in his favour against Lloyd. Or maybe the only JC was in Bramhall and him writing about how he had to flee to Wilmslow to get a fair hearing was to hammer home the fact that he felt he was being unfairly hounded by elders.

It’s certainly plausible that second JC never happened. There’s just so many holes in this story and when you plug in WT policy, much of it simply doesn’t mesh.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

He got removed as an elder in Bramhall that's a fact, so things were already serious there ,that is why he quickly moved congregations because they were getting ready for stage 2

It’s so crazy when you think about it. They both had jobs and had a sweetheart deal from a local JW for a nice place on a cul-de-sac for £400 a month. Why would you give that up in exchange for a life of poverty with no immediate job prospects in Gornje Komarevo? He claimed they moved to help her parents who had health problems. They were more of a burden than anything. More mouths to feed.

The move back to Wilmslow sounds like a cover for what he intended to do. If Geoffrey and the gang knew he was headed for Croatia they might have acted more urgently.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

I love this thread.

I’d bet Boss Hogg “loves” it too in his own way. Probably checks in every night. I’d would too if I had as much free time as him and my career is hinging on fading hope that people stop talking about the scandal. I’ll attempt to express an evening in the life of Lloyd Evans by writing in prose.

“It was another futile night at the Swanky Monkey Bar. The chilly spring mist clung to my 5 day old beard as I walked through the streets of the Zagreb financial district back home. My rendition of Dancing Queen wasn’t much of a hit with the crowd as the girl I had been interested in for the past few months excused herself soon after I approached her. Always telling me she has friends to meet. Such a pity.

My stride up the stairs became more urgent as I neared my attic flat. I knew what must be done, and quickly. If it had not been for Pornhub, I’d have to have my dosages increased. At least this was the more natural method to relieve my frustration. It took me less than 3 minutes this time. The girl from tonight will never know what she was missing. Her loss. Bitch. The disinterested squeals from the stars of Anal-Rama 12: Trip to Thailand were fading from my temporarily discarded smartphone as I searched for my sailor’s rag to wipe up the aftermath. I thought I put it under by bed? There it is, between the bed and the wall.

My thoughts turned to tomorrow and thus the end of my 10 day weekend. Tibor will have to wait a little while longer at Ramacro. ‘Looking more like 2 in the afternoon, bud. See you then.’”

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

No. Dijana shouldn't be going to the Kingdom Hall, nor should anyone here encourage her to. (Though if it were me, I'd take the girls for a one-off Memorial visit just to fuck with Jabba the Hutt and see him melt down on Twitter)

She seems to be supportive of environmental causes and animal rights (particularly whales). It would be quite a bit of a pivot to drop all that and convince yourself that Jehovah is going to take care of all that in due time.

What she should do that would be constructive and beneficial for the girls is working on repairing the damage Lloyd had done to her relationship with her parents. It sounds like they still wanted to be a part of hers and the girls' lives. Lloyd was the one who set all these series of rules for them. No preaching to the girls should be the only rule that is necessary. Perhaps they could provide a vital link between them and their family history, Croatian culture and heritage.

Oh. And please do find a man. It'll be great for her own fulfillment, and she'll find out how it is really like to have sex that doesn't require her partner fluffing himself up to porn prior. The girls might actually have a positive male role model for the first time in their lives.

He'll write and perform a breakup song and it will be EPIC.

So you've taken someone into your life.

Now I know for sure you are not my wife

You've cried and complained when I went to Pa Tong

When all this time I've done nothing wrong

Despite my love you sought someone new

Keep your silence about me or I might just sue.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

dont believe his lies. He got removed for crossing the line and sexting an elders daughter.

I don’t believe his version of events. What I do believe is that when he wrote that book, he felt exJWs would consider it as the next Crisis of Conscience and believe every word of it. He knew there would be people in the UK and Croatia who could blow the whistle on him, so if he put out his sanitised story first, he’d gain control of the narrative.

He went into great detail regarding his feud with Geoffrey. As he described it, it was essentially a clash of personalities. Geoffrey was the senior elder and didn’t appreciate the haughty Evans kid from Wilmslow coming into Bramhall and thinking he was his equal. The argument basically boiled down to Geoffrey policing the romantic lives of the congregation. Geoffrey’s sister tried to date when her divorce wasn’t final, so he marked her and called out people who were seen as too friendly with her, including Lloyd. He also instructed a Bible Study of Lloyd’s to stop dating a woman from another congregation. Typical elder bullshit, nothing out of the ordinary. Lloyd tried to correct him and they clashed even further.

Here’s where it became obvious he wasn’t telling the whole truth: Bethel got involved when Geoffrey took his dispute with Lloyd to them behind the BOE’s back. If this was just a dispute between two power hungry elders, this is handled by the CO or DO if needed. Geoffrey had to have something serious on Lloyd to get Bethel involved, something like you suggested. Otherwise for legal and practical reasons they delegate to the CO. Only reason Bethel mediates is when this can directly affect them in the form of a potential lawsuit or likewise.

Lloyd and Geoffrey butting heads over personal issues doesn’t make the cut.

For something as serious as underage sexting and flirtation, I’d imagine that it’s in Bethel’s interest to calm the situation down so that Geoffrey in a fit of anger doesn’t call the police. They need to placate Geoffrey by dishing out tangible punishment for Lloyd. They also want to neutralise Lloyd but at the same time not trigger him to do something out of spite, so they essentially demote him to being an elder in name only.

I could be off on some of the details, but this is my attempt to filter out the bullshit from what Lloyd was saying in his book.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

It sounds like local elders in Croatia had LE pegged as a user, a misogynist, and possibly worse, early on

I would never suggest that anyone read his book, and since I seem to be the one who took one for the team, let me say that it is clear that he thought so little of her from the very beginning. I remember the "Introducing Mrs Cedars" thread here where he suggested (warned?) that people don't overload her as he falsely claimed her English wasn't great and that she'd be more comfortable exchanging recipes. What is absolutely crystal clear is that he is not comfortable with anyone else reaching out to her without him present. In his book he absolutely eviscerated the Sisak elder who took her in the back and tried to get info about their personal life, saying "I know Lloyd treats you like a rag for cleaning the floor".

When the elders were attempting a shepherding call on him, he refused on the condition that the elder who said that apologise to him. He didn't like it because what that elder stated was precisely how he treated his wife and she didn't know any different.

And what happened when he delegated two of his volunteers to befriend her because he didn't want her bothering him whilst he was in Thailand? Didn't take her long to tell it like it was and that's why he isolated her for so long and didn't allow her to have any friends.

The book is a real head-fuck to read. Fortunately, I have a handy ~~PDF~~ uhm "digital copy I totally paid for" that I can use Ctl-F on. Every time he fucked up with her, instead of her getting angry with him he described her as actually worried that he'd leave her. That's a tell-tale sign someone is being emotionally manipulated. I have no reason to doubt she expressed those feelings. In the few times she actually stood up to him, he probably threatened to do just that and leave her. That's what Thailand was all about. "You don't want to share me with other women? I'll show you! You made me do this."

It was all about showing her how easily she could lose him and his money if she didn't toe the line and accept his proposed arrangement. He expected her to fall into line after his two loyal volunteers told her what a great guy he was and exJW activism would be devastated if he left.

Oops.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

I really think he would never want anybody in the Ex-JW community to know that he cheated on his wife, who just had a baby ,with a croatian pioneer sister!

She wasn't a pioneer anymore. Her and Lloyd were both removed as pioneers in the Bramhall congregation as a result of his quarrel with yet another elder he didn't get along with that he called "Geoffrey". Accusations and complaints were flying back and forth and Bethel had to mediate. In The Reluctant Apostate footnote 95, Lloyd explains the fallout:

I was told I would no longer be the overseer of the weekly Theocratic Ministry School (a program I will mention again in Chapter Eight). Furthermore, Dijana and myself were stripped of our pioneer status. It was felt that neither of us had been sufficiently pulling our weight in terms of preaching hours, so I was asked to break the news to Dijana that her eight years of pioneering in two different countries were unceremoniously at an end.

Though he explains the reason for being removed as them not meeting pioneer hours, it happened in the Bramhall congregation where all hell broke loose. It seems to me it was related to the conflict with Geoffrey, the discovery of him sexting someone, etc. There was a lot of animosity between Lloyd and Geoffrey, but it seemed like fairly typical elder behaviour in Lloyd's book. He sounded like a complete prick, but then again what KH doesn't have those types of elders? Here are some interesting snippets from his feud with Geoffrey:

“Be very careful, Lloyd,” he warned, before listing all the reasons why I had disappointed him.

This incident spilled over into months of bitter wrangling, as Geoffrey insisted I be deleted as an elder for being a disrupting influence to the congregation, and for being deceitful.

How was Lloyd being deceitful and disruptive? If Geoffrey was as vindictive of an elder as Lloyd described him, there's a good chance he leaked what Lloyd did through back channels that were designed to alert the elders in Croatia. He appealed to Bethel and got Lloyd's and Dijana's privileges removed. What did Bethel find out about Lloyd that necessitated this punishment? A quarrel with Geoffrey doesn't seem a likely reason.

Why was Dijana removed as a pioneer? These types of things don't occur in a vacuum and though people are sometimes removed for not getting their hours in, there usually is another factor at work.

What really happened in Bramhall that led to Dijana being removed as a pioneer?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

Dijana wanted to wait until after she had Jessica to start to fade. She didn’t want to DA however what Lloyd wants, lloyd gets.

Now isn't this just a special blend of fucked up. There was some discussion here when he was babbling all about how he was planning to conjure up a JC for himself by writing that article. He was no longer here but he was posting on Facebook his plans and how he would have felt remiss if their child had been born with either parent still officially affiliated with JWs. He wanted a "clean break" which seems reasonable, but as long as the child does not get exposed to any WT material, I can't see how one parent being inactive and fading would have been much different.

I made the point then and I do now: A woman in her third trimester of pregnancy shouldn't needlessly be exposed to stressful meetings with elders and all the drama behind a DA letter, especially when they still had no clue as to the extent of how her parents would shun them. The elders seemed content to leave Dijana out of it and probably would have just let her fade. Considering the circumstances regarding them living with her parents, that would have been the wiser move.

But Lloyd couldn't bear to have them shun him whilst still in association with Dijana and the baby. He gets shunned, everyone gets shunned. Lloyd can do what he wants for himself and if a confrontation with the elders was what he wanted to do then go ahead. But don't drag your pregnant wife along with you who'd much rather fade.

"You're getting DAed with me. I insist! It's best for our child!"

How sick. Let me guess: When Dijana initially pushed against that plan, Lloyd accused her of still being mentally in.

"You still have a JW Mindset! You should watch my videos and fully wake up! Oh and who is cooking supper tonight? You or your mum? I'm getting hungry."

Since he knows everything about the thought patterns of exJWs, let's have our cult expert Tibor Cecelja come on here to explain why Dijana had to follow what her husband had prescribed for her for us plebs.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

Lloyd must have assumed that Dijana was the weakest ring of the chain.

Another gap in his retelling of the JC is how they solved the issue of her letter. The elders were insistent they would meet with her privately to talk about it. Lloyd was out of mobile minutes and unsuccessfully tried to use the elder’s phone so he could get Dijana to resign on the spot. They were at an impasse and Lloyd does not say anything else about it.

I’ve been out awhile, but I do know that you do not and cannot negotiate with elders. There was nothing Lloyd could have said or done, being freshly DAed himself to have any sway over their decision to meet with his wife. But we’re meant to believe that all was resolved by the end of the JC.

My educated guess was that Lloyd spazzed out and threw so much of a tantrum that he did get Dijana to make the call that she was resigning. Whether this happened whilst the JC was still in session or when he got home is anyone’s guess.

And she was indeed the weak link. She was so isolated and beat down that she just spilt everything to women whom she barely knew the first chance she got, even going back to what was essentially her forced DA in 2013.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Las Malvinas son Argentinas

Pay also attention how he wanted badly Dijana out too. Why this rush? In the end one week or two what difference would have made?

This is a key point. Even per his account in his book, the elders wanted to meet with her after reading the letter. They were not rejecting her “DA letter”, they just wanted to meet with her and clarify things. She said she did not feel like a JW. That could have meant she did not want to be one. Or it could have meant that she was confused and didn’t know what she wanted, which would be where I’d be leaning too considering who she was married to and his controlling nature. I think the elders were right in wanting a separate meeting with her to clarify her thoughts on her letter, not her husband’s interpretation of a letter written in a language he did not comprehend.

The reason he wanted her letter accepted and her out at the same time as him was because he didn’t want her going to her own JC where he could not be present. Were they going to ask her about the nature of their relationship and what led her upon this path? Were they going to ask what she knew and what part she played in their escape from the UK?